HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986/12/17 - MINUTES r
ADJOURNED
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Council Chamber, City Hall
December 17, 1986
3:00 p.m.
ROLL CALL F-Y 1986 - 1987
Present Present Excused Absences
Planning Commission This Meeting to Date to date
Larry Lapham, Chairman X 10 0
Hugh Curtis X 9 1
Brent Hough X 4 0
Earl Neel X 7 3
Gary Olsen - 7 3
Barbara Whitney X 7 1
Staff Present
Marvin D. Roos, Planning Director
Carol Vankeeken, Planner
Douglas Evans, Planner
Robert Green, Planner
Richard Patenaude, Planner
Margo Williams, Planner
Dave Forcucci, Zoning Enforcement
Mary E. Lawler, Recording Secretary
Architectural Advisory Committee - In attendance.
Chris Mills Absent: William Johnson
Tom Doczi Gary Olsen
Barbara Whitney
Brent Hough
Will Kleindienst
Mike Buccino
Chairman called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m.
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 2
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CASE 3.960. Application by CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATES for the Palm Springs Mall for
architectural approval of exterior colors for remodeled shopping center
on the southwest corner of Tahquitz-McCallum Way/Farrell Drive, C-S-C
Zone, Section 13.
Planning Director stated that the application had been reviewed several
times and continued for further information by the architect and staff,
that the approved colored elevations are on the board and colored blue
lines represented what was actually painted at the Mall . He stated that
the architect also has brought 2 X 2 foot panels of the architectural
colors to the meeting. He stated that the colors do not correspond to
the original approval , that he took slides of the Mall and the Camelot
Theater to depict the colors, and that the Camelot colors have not been
approved. He stated that the colors appear bolder in the field than
represented on the renderings.
Planner (Williams) showed the color board and stated that some of the
colors are not as represented, and the placement has shifted.
Planning Director presented the slides and stated that there is lack of
continuity from section to section with nothing to tie the colors
together.
Chairman stated that the color scheme of the theater is organized and
the use of yellow highlights the scheme and has a more pleasing effect,
but that the main building of the Mall has no color organization. He
stated that the yellow is better as an accent color than as a mass
color.
Planning Director stated that it is difficult to relate the color board
to the actual painting because of the complexity of the architecture and
actual relationships between colors as used.
Chairman stated that if the colors had been presented as they actually
are, they would not have been approved.
David Christian, 1000 S. Palm Canyon Drive, Project Architect, stated
that color is a subjective issue, and that direction is needed for a
solution. He stated that the colors depicted on the blueline are true.
Commissioner Curtis stated that the true colors should have been given
to the Commission in the beginning.
Mr. Christian stated that the relationship of the colors was not
pleasing as originally conceived, and were changed in the field and a
specific palette developed. He stated that six intense colors are being
used.
Commissioner Hough and Chairman Lapham stated that there is no
resemblance to the actual colors depicted on the board to those painted
on the building.
Commissioner Curtis stated that the color scheme was approved from the
sample board but the elevations were not reviewed in the field which is
the problem. He stated that he knew at the time that the colors would
not be pleasing and that their placement was not what he envisioned.
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 3
CASE 3.960 (Continued)
Chairman stated that the Commission is committed to a lively color
scheme, but that he does not like the disorganized color scheme, and
that the trim color is overpowering. He stated that the other
Commissioners did not like the scheme, and that the colors should be
better organized and have less contrast.
Commissioner Curtis stated that the architecture was well designed and
does not need the colors which are much brighter than anticipated.
Mr. Christian asked if peach and pink could be used in some of the
columns. Chairman explained that the color selection could not be made
by the Commissioners and that the architect should reorganize the
colors. Mr. Christian replied he was trying to complete the color
scheme in a way that would be acceptable, but that there are no correct
answers to this subjective issue.
Commissioner Hough stated that the yellow and its volume is objection-
able. Mr. Christian replied that not all the yellow will be seen
because of the angles of the buildings. Mr. Christian also stated that
another color could be used if agreed upon by the entire Commission.
Commissioner Whitney commented that a direction could be given on
acceptable colors and those that should be used less.
Chairman stated that an opinion and consensus could be given but that
the yellow color does not fit the palette.
Commissioner Whitney remarked that the yellow should be lightened but
not eliminated.
AAC member Buccino asked if the yellow should have less volume, and
Chairman explained that it should be used as an accent color, the way it
is painted on the Camelot.
Discussion continued on possible base and accent colors. Planning
Director stated that the number of colors could be less thus lessening
the impact, but that there seems to be eagerness to grab attention
instead of letting good architecture make a statement. He stated that
the base should be simplified with accent colors applied at various
places, and that the Council will be scrutinizing the palette, and that
the colors may have to be sorted out at the Council level .
AAC member Mills stated that he likes the colors exactly the way they
are as a solution to the concept begun by the architect, that the
Camelot colors are excellent with the architecture delineated by the
painting, but that the Mall may not look as well and a more organized
approach would be better. He stated that perhaps the columns would be
painted the same color for continuity, that the yellow has been used on
two other successful projects. He stated that in time the controversy
will end and the colors will be acceptable.
AAC member Doczi stated that the elevation colors should be reviewed
from an overall standpoint, rather than review of individual colors.
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 4
CASE 3.960 (Continued)
Commissioner Neel stated that the Camelot is well done, but there is too
large a mass of yellow on the Mall , and that the color intensity should
be lessened.
Discussion continued. In reply to Mr. Christian's question, Mr. Curtis
stated that the Mall colors were a problem when the colors were placed
without Commission approval . Mr. Christian answered that staff was con-
tacted about the procedure on painting and was told that a colored
sample should be painted on the building for AAC review and that the 3
base colors were approved in the field, but that the accent colors were
painted at the developer's risk because the accent colors were to be
painted in sAall areas.
Discussion continued. Commissioner Curtis reiterated that the architec-
ture should speak for itself, and that the yellow should be eliminated.
AAC member Kleindienst stated that a palette should be accepted or not.
Chairman stated that the colors should be organized like those of the
Camelot. Mr. Christian explained that the Camelot is a single separate
freestanding building and that is why the colors are effective. He
stated that he could paint the Mall peach and trim with the other
colors, which would not be a bold combination. Planning Director
disagreed stating that peach scheme with accent colors is still a bold
statement, and that he was shocked even with the three base colors. He
stated that the east side of the Mall was approved with a softer
combination, with a primarily peach palette. Mr. Christian stated that
there are several panels on the east side that are pink. Planning
Director stated that the pink is not approved as a field color.
Discussion continued. Mr. Christian stated that some areas have to be
yellow, and that it is a real dilemma. Commissioner Hough stated that
the dilemma is the intensity. Planning Director stated that the
intensity of the colors has not changed and the yellow shown was
approved, but that the placement of the yellow on K-mart was not
approved. Mr. Christian explained that the color palette matches
closely the blue line colors, but even if some of the colors were
changed, the palette would still be a strong statement. Chairman stated
that the Commission could not act as color consultants.
AAC member Kleindienst asked if any of the colors originally submitted
were approved. Chairman answered that there was supposed to be a second
approval by the Commission, but that the Commission did not take further
action. Planning Director stated that the color board was conditionally
approved by the Commission. Mr. Christian explained that he was told
by staff that three base colors were approved, but that the developer
understood that the secondary colors were not. Planning Director
repeated that the Planning Commission approved the color palette subject
to field review. Commissioner Curtis stated that Commission reviewed
the rendering for color, but what was painted was not on the renderings.
Mr. Christian repeated that he had been in contact with staff constantly
and that he was given approval to proceed. Planning Director stated
that the architect had gotten permission for the three field colors, but
there was disagreement on which were the field colors and that the
normal review was circumvented because of the urgency to open the K-Mart
�.., store. Mr. Christian stated that any combination of the colors would
have the same effect.
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 5
CASE 3.960 (Continued)
Chairman and Commissioner Curtis disagreed with the architect. Mr.
Christian stated that once the colors are on the east side, there will
be the same impact.
Commissioner Curtis suggested that the Camelot colors be used without
the punch of the other colors. Discussion continued.
Gary Victerson of Benequity, Mall owners, stated that the colors and
basic overall theme were approved, and that some color changes were made
in the field although not drastic ones, but that the concept was not
changed. Regarding the north elevations he stated that he would like to
work with the AAC and Commission and staff to make adjustments, but he
wanted to maintain the general overall concept and most of the color
palette. Regarding the east side, he stated that it was painted with
the approval of the City, but that minor elements could be changed. He
stated he would not repaint the entire east side.
AAC member Doczi suggested action on the north side renderings. Mr.
Christian also requested action on the north side, since a definite
submittal has been submitted. Commissioner Curtis suggested elimination
of yellow as a base color or changing the yellow to coordinate better
with the other colors, and restudy of currently existing colors to
lessen their impact to meet the intent of the original colored
elevations including the reorganization of the colors and architecture.
M/S/C (Curtis/Hough; Whitney dissented; Olsen absent) for a restudy
recommending the following:
That the yellow color be eliminated as a base color or changed to
another color which better coordinates with the remainder of the
palette; restudy of the placement and organization of the colors to
better coordinate with the architecture; and approving the colors of the
Camelot Theatre as painted.
NB: The above is a summarization by Chairman of the motion by Commissioner
Curtis indicating that the intent of the motion is that the colors be
restudied to lessen the impact to meet the intent of the original
colored elevations so they better coordinate with the entire
architecture and color scheme.
Commissioner Whitney dissented stating a concern over the elimination of
the yellow from the palette which might have the effect of intensifying
the impact of the remaining colors.
CASE 3.0141. Application by JETWAY SYSTEMS for Skywest for review of revised
elevations for an aircraft/hush house facility on Gene Autry Trail
between Vista Chino/Ramon Road, A Zone, Section 18.
Planner (Evans) stated that Skywest is negotiating a lease with the City
on Airport property and needs the full impact of the lease to be known
and needs to know conditions of approval . He stated that the item was
not added to the December 17 Council agenda and that AAC member Mills
who left the meeting left comments on the hush house architecture. He
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 6
CASE 3.0141 (Continued)
stated that there was concern on integration of the elements of the
building, primarily on the south elevation and also concerns on the roof
line. He stated that the AAC recommended a full elevation on all three
sides, that Mr. Mills felt the elevations were better, and that the
parapet would be acceptable since the design for Skywest is exactly like
that of Jimsair (an existing facility). He stated that the original
elevations were restudied for a better transition in the roof element
from the maintenance facility to the office.
AAC member Kleindienst stated that he has seen better designed hangers
and that he did not like the multiple building look, and that a large
building such as the proposed one needs articulation comparable to its
scale. He stated that the Jimsair hanger is also poorly articulated.
Planner stated that the location is on Gene Autry Trail next to Jimsair
and that the parcel to the north is City owned and will have a large
building on it in the future, and will be roughly in the same location.
He stated that the Skywest building will face east and open south.
In response to Commission question, AAC member Kleindienst stated that
the design should be restudied.
B. Lueng, project architect, stated that the renderings show the same
architecture as the buildings currently at the airport, and that the
applicant did not want to establish another type of architecture for a
maintenance building which is not a publicly used building. He
explained reasons for the building's configuration.
Chairman stated that the Commission is only concerned about the Gene
Autry Trail elevation. Discussion continued. Commissioner Curtis asked
the reasons for the attachment of the office to the main hanger. Mr.
Lueng stated that the hush house is a facility for engine run ups and
precludes the attachment of the hush house to the main building because
of vibration. Planner stated that because of setback requirements from
the ramp and runway the buildings are on the setback lines, and that
rearranging the buildings would cost landscaping and also that setbacks
would be lost.
AAC member Kleindienst stated that even though it is a non-public
building it is still on a public street.
Discussion continued. Mr. Kleindienst recommended restudy of the
architecture to show relief in the facade.
G. Stinson of Jetway Systems, the applicant, stated that the style was
revised to show texture. He stated that the rear of the buildings will
be obscured by landscaping, and that palm trees will obscure the pitch
side of the roof at the corners (similar to the appearance of Jimsair).
He stated that the fact that the building will be obscured in the future
by another large building should be considered. He explained that
Skywest will be bringing in another plane next month and the building is
necessary for maintenance. He stated that bright colors were avoided
and colors similar to that of Combs-Gates were chosen.
Chairman stated that the AAC probably did not recommend putting parapets
on the building (Mr. Kleindienst agreed) , and that the Commission
December 10, 1986 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Page 7
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CASE 3.0141 (Continued)
consensus is a restudy of the elevations fronting Gene Autry Trail with
resolution of the problems left to the architect. He stated that no
approval of the hanger could be given because there are problems with
the site plan. AAC member Buccino asked for directions for the Gene
Autry elevation. Mr. Lueng stated that he did not want to do an
architectural overkill , and that the administration building had to be
as tall as the hangar because of the air conditioning equipment.
S. Adkins, Vice-President of Skywest, requested approval stating he had
tried to comply with the appearance of the present buildings on the
airport, that aircraft are being delivered, and that the facility must
be open. He stated that because of the restudy the Council review of
December 17 had been missed. He requested understanding of the
deadlines from the Commission.
Chairman stated that whatever is built on the airport will be there 50
years, that Jimsair is a good design and the Commission should not lower
standards. He stated that the applicants could design a better
building.
AAC member Kleindienst stated that he did not like Jimsair because it
had no articulation and is a large metal shack, and that the subject
proposal has three elements and a chance to have articulation.
Discussion ensued at the board on the location of the buildings.
Planning Director stated that perhaps the office building could be moved
southerly. Mr. Stinson explained that a noise footprint had to be
followed and that the building locations are determined by the functions
of the buildings.
M/S/C (Whitney/Neel ; Olsen absent) for a restudy, directing the
application to staff and the AAC to find a solutio that satisfies the
AAC, at which point the Planning Commission will consider the project
approved, and the applicants can proceed.
Discussion ensued. Planning Director stated that staff would work with
the architect on colors as well as design r_evision.s.
Chairman left the meeting.
PLANNING D_r_R R
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WP/PC MINS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Council Chamber, City Hall
January 14, 1987
1:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL F-Y 1986 - 1987
Present Preseo't Excused Absences
Planning Commission This Meeting to pate to date
Larry Lapham, Chairman X 11 0
�,.
Hugh Curtis, Vice Chairman X 10 1
Martha Edgmon X '' 5 0
Brent Hough X `' 5 0
Earl Neel X 8 3
Gary Olsen X 8 3
Barbara Whitney X 8 1
Martha Edgmon X 1 0
Staff Present
Marvin D. Roos, Planning Director'
Siegfried Siefkes, Assistant City Attorney
Carol Vankeeken, Planner
Richard Patenaude, Planner
Douglas Evans, Planner
Robert Green, Planner
Margo Williams, Planner
Dave Forcucci , Zoning Enforcement
Mary E. Lawler, Recording Secretary
Architectural Advisory Committee - January 12, 1987
r
Chris Mills, Chairman Absent: Mike Buccino
William Johnson :'
Gary Olsen J"
Tom Doczi
Barbara Whitney
Brent Hough`
Will Klein,dienst
Chairman called the meeting to order at 1:30 p.m.
f
Report of Posting of Agenda. Agenda available for public access at City Hall
Lobby counter, Planning Division counter, and Library Reference Room, by 1:30
p.m. , Friday, January 9, 1987.
M/S/C (Olsen/Whitney) approving minutes of December, 10 &' 17' 1986, with the
following corrections:
indicate
1. December 17 adjourned minutes, pages after front page /"December 10,
1986" (should be December 17) .