HomeMy WebLinkAbout1999 - MINUTES - 1/27/1999 - STUDY SESSIONSTUDY SESSION
CITY OF PALM SPRINGS
JANUARY 27, 1999
CONVENE IN OPEN SESSION
A. Call Back to Order in Studio B-Oden absent
B. Flag Salute
C. City Attorney Report on Matters Discussed in Closed Session-See Page 2 of Agenda this
date.
D. Public Comments
Thomas Lorenzo, resident, stated noise level is intolerable coming from the DT area; open air amps
the sound; annoying after 10 p.m.; Ord on books, should be enforced.
Sam Piscue, 600 Linda Vista Dr., stated noise level been going on for over 1 year; ongoing problem;
noise prohibits sleep at night; unable to enjoy community; request quiet residence.
Dave Baron, rep. Tennis Club homeowners, request Council make a decision; no question of noise
pollution; have an Ordinance, needs to be enforced; residents entitled to quiet enjoyment of property;
not sure what a decibel is, but when one hears noise at 1 a.m. and are unable to sleep, then it is too
loud; suggest committee to determine ordinance clarification, determine some type of enforcement
mechanism, and need established penalties, and need to cite musicians along with operators of the
business.
Bob Weithorn, Orchid Tree Inn, have met with 40 residents regarding noise; have had guests leave
due to noise; music inside restaurants across street is drowned out by the noise; not just residents but
businesses are suffering; and added many musicians are deaf, thus requiring someone else to monitor
the music.
Patricia Cohen, 333 S. Patencio, can not enjoy privacy of home; noise is loud, causing sleepless
nights; City is not solving the problem; are aware, but not enforcing the Ordinances; music is blaring;
property values are being decreased; does not want to waste PD’s time coming out to check, the
problem should be resolved.
Ron James, musician, seen alot of changes DT; this is a matter of taste; loud music is defined
differently by people; temp and moisture regulate how far music will carry; that musicians are not
deaf; that Palm Springs in a natural amphitheater; and that the downtown depends on tourism, and
music is a draw.
Greg Demetrio, 343 W. Baristo, issue is quality of life; those that live around the Tennis Center are
fortunate to be close to the downtown area; that the City is a natural amphitheater; and that the noise
issue must be addressed now before summer comes.
Dick Sroda, noise level is a matter of enforcing the Ordinance; and questioned if the decibel level was
lowered who lowered it; that this is a matter of quality of life, and quality of life is why people move
here.
Denny Cherette, 367 S. Patencio, moved here for quality of life and chose Tennis Club area; that when
he bought no one disclosed the noise level; that it is a noise hazard area; that values of homes will be
affected; and requested the level be lowered.
Jim Schlecht, 801 Tahquitz, representing Smoke Tree Ranch, requested opportunity to address item 2
when Council addressed the matter.
John Hickney, Best, Best and Kreiger, Ice House counsel, stated he had sent a public records request
to the City Attorney January 5, 1999, and had not received a response; that he did request a listing of
all complaints regarding the Ice House; that the Ice House is interested in being a good neighbor; that
according to the records on file there were only 5 complaints in 1998; that the Ice House does want the
City to take a responsible approach; that tourism is building downtown; and suggested a noise
consultant address the problem.
Ric Service, 222 SPC, stated issue of noise is of concern; that meetings have been held with staff; that
those resulted in the noise level being lowered; that the businesses downtown want to be good
neighbors; that he has sold the restaurants amplification equipment; that he is monitoring what the
restaurant does and is drawing up a noise mitigation plan.
Michelle Pischa, stated it is not the cars or talking but the music downtown, and that it is too loud.
Frank Tysen, 175 S. Cahuilla, that communication has been occurring between the residents, hoteliers
and the City for the past 8 months regarding the noise level; that quality of life should not have to be
fought for; that this noise will result in bad economics for the City; that there are alot of complaints;
that the residents are hotel guests are being sacrificed; that conditions of approval include abiding by
the Ordinances of the City; and that one suggestion would be to keep the doors closed.
Mathew Talallah, Village Pub Owner, stated he is willing to work with someone to try to resolve the
problem; that he is merely trying to make a living while others are trying to sleep; that a professional
technician needs to be hired to study the situation and come up with a solution.
Dave Baron, representing Smoke Tree.
Mayor stated that the speaker had already addressed the Council.
Dave Baron, stated this was a different client.
Mayor stated the speaker had already addressed the Council.
Richon Schwartz, tourist, stated the noise downtown was too loud.
Robert Cannon, consultant for Lucky Stores, stated his availability regarding item 2, should there be
questions.
Jim Pointer, American Stores representative, stated his availability regarding item 2, should there be
any questions; and added that the marketability studies came back positive for need and that the
consumers in the area need a choice.
Chairmen Allah, Lucky Stores, working with Smoke Tree Ranch, stated $11 million will be generated
in development; fiscal benefit will result in tax revenues and development fees; economic benefit for
area, will create 70 new employee positions; and added that if there are questions when the matter is
discussed he would be available.
Ails Goforth, 175 S. Cahuilla, requested by Phillips Restaurant to comment on the noise level
downtown; that the noise is too loud to enjoy dining out; can not provide a pleasant atmosphere for
diners; need to solve the issue.
Gene Holley, 480 W. Ramon, stated he had a business downtown 15 years ago and requested
permission to place speakers outside and was denied; Tennis Club residents request should be
honored.
Tomah Donnald, 255 S. Indian Canyon, need to come to Council as peacemakers; need to work
together; need business downtown and need to satisfy local residents; suggested committee of
business owners, residents and hoteliers involved to get together.
Tim Ellis, 350 Chino Canyon, stated City Council should take a leadership role; need a vibrant
downtown; expressed concern for SmokeTree project; not sure another grocery store will help with
UUT; need a hotel on the site, would bring in incredible amount of revenue; need to look for future;
have 13 grocery stores now; not alot of good lots left for building in Palm Springs.
Walter Vockler, Manager of Palm Springs Smoke Tree Center; expressed concern for another grocery
store in area
E. Council Comments/Questions/Reports
Bill Clawson, LMI & Gary Sherwin PSDRCVB, reviewed a written report submitted to Council, this
date.
Mayor stated that the main thrust is to get more tourism into Palm Springs.
Hodges-reviewed recent CVAG meeting and requested support given to SCAG re rail issues; Census
2000 reps for CV will be Mr. Pettis & Mayor Silva.
Reller-Spurgin expressed concern on status of Code Enforcement efforts in City; and requested
materials provided at meetings, be provided ahead of time instead.
G. Study Session
1. Discussion re: Mntce & Refurbishing of Park Restrooms
City Manager Demuth Bldg is in position to move from concept to planning stages and requested
Council input on Super Secur models.
Hodges questioned show it relates to building it ourselves; how long does it take to complete in both
scenarios.
Downtown, Parks & Golf Manager stated Super Secur is more expensive, less time to complete,
generally 2 - 3 days.
City Manager stated that there are also differing costs in maintenance and that the matter will be
presented to Parks & Recreation Commission first.
Downtown, Parks & Golf Manager stated that Parks & Recreation Commission had no problem with
the pre-fab as long as it looked good and was cost effective.
Barnes questioned if any other models were reviewed.
Downtown Parks & Golf Manager stated that it would be best to go out to bid for the same thing
Super Secure does or a better product.
Mayor questioned if any space currently used by AYSO snack bar would be removed; if the fixture
count was higher; whether there are one or two facilities proposed at Demuth; and added that two
buildings in the park in two different locations would be better served; requested remote location sites,
costs, possible freed up space for AYSO; public needs vandal resistant, clean accessible and functions
facilities.
Downtown Parks & Golf Manager stated will report back; more cost effective to have more stalls in
one building; hot water will be available and material is durable.
City Manager stated will report back with alternative sites throughout DeMuth Park.
2. Review of Proposed Expansion of Neighborhood Shipping Center Adjacent to Smoke Tree
Shopping Center.
Director of Planning & Building stated that the matter did go to the Planning Commission, that they
were not supportive of the project; that it is now before the City Council for merit; that the proposal
includes a Lucky Store, McDonalds, AM/PM; Planning Commission did not review exhibits; that the
general plan designation is for commercial/resort; that the zoning is high density resort; or hotel zone;
that a zone change would be necessary; that of concern is the possibility of causing vacancies; plans
indicate new center to be a village atmosphere; total would be $13-$14 million investment.
Dave Baron, Smoke Tree Village Center, stated Planning Commission was opposed to the project
based on economic and architectural concerns; that the project is currently prohibited by the general
plan; that the area is targeted for hotels; that if the new store is approved, Ralphs will probably
bankrupt; that the market will be oversaturated; Smoke Tree Ranch will lease the property to Lucky.
Robert Tarden, American Stores, stated Planning Commission study session did not dwell on
architecture or land use but on the viability of market; and that if the Council approves of the concept,
the planning issues can be worked out.
Jim Pointer, American Stores, stated it is a good location for a Lucky Store; that area customers only
have one place to shop right now; that everyone should have a choice; that Lucky’s had only one store
in the northern part of town, now Albertsons is there for variety; that the market studies indicate this
will support two stores; that Ralphs will continue in business; that the new market will draw from
Cathedral City; and that he is available for questions.
Jim Schlecht, stated that the site has been on the market for awhile; that if the Council is holding out
for a hotel, they may be holding along time; that if the supermarket is now what the Council wants,
then something needs to be put there, but that the market should not be turned down on the thought
that a hotel might happen there.
Barnes: difficult to come up with alot of comments; concerned for Smoke Tree Center; that relevant
documents were not furnished to the Council until tonight; that Luckys does everything top notch; that
the plans submitted tonight look good; that there is concern about the Planning Commission decision,
and what caused it; that it is clear that they did not think this was the best use; that the issue looks like
a dead-lock.
Hodges: have a site with hotel overlay; need to look at overlay; been there 15 years, not one project in
that time has been presented; if waiting for hotel it is not feasible; biggest concern is what will happen
if another market comes in; do not want Ralphs to close; need to be careful in decision; Smoke Tree
Center is a good center now; not opposed to changing zone, but Lucky’s needs to sell Council on
approving market.
Reller-Spurgin: if hotel is interested in site, would like a letter of intent; when Albertsons came in alot
of little stores had to relocate; do not want that to happen again; concern is for existing small
businesses; not it favor of new building to create vacancies.
Mayor is encouraged by anyone coming to Palm Springs wanting to build; more stores are needed; not
sure if this is the location for a store; Ralphs will be affected; if Council changes zone and general
plan, usually still does not allow shopping centers across the street from each other; why not open a
store on Racquet Club; not certain that this area is the right use, need to study overlay; not sure
Council would approve a center on this site, at this time, not confident that this is good use for the
area; no evidence by neighborhood a new grocery store is needed; Smoke Tree is pedestrian friendly,
well balanced and not convinced at this point a new store is needed.
City Manager, unusual step to bring applicant before Council at this point, but wanted applicant to
hear where Council may head.
3. Discussion regarding Downtown Entertainment & Noise Issues
Planning Director stated noise level will depend on circumstances on temperature and air quality;
started monitoring noise in 1977, big difference in summer and winter noise level readings; alot of
people come out in the summer.
Reller-Spurgin if music can be heard by the residents at 11 p.m., is that a violation?
Planning Director no, passed out handout, copy attached and reviewed same; passed out noise
ordinance, reviewed same; stated downtown is not currently violating the noise ordinance; but that
does not change what the residents hear and are comfortable with; that the level was lowered on a
voluntary basis; that a noise consultant may need to be employed; that noise can be redirected; that if
the acoustics are changed may benefit the downtown and the residents; sound barriers may be
suggested; can continue to monitor, but the non-violation status will remain; that most of the problem
is solved if the establishment keeps it doors closed; that the residents need to feel comfortable, but that
there is not a violation to be enforced; that there are issues of hours of operation that could be
reviewed.
Gray Boswell, Police Department has received alot of complaints; that the downtown police officers
have bicycles equipped to monitor noise levels; most compliance has been voluntary; noise is lout, but
is a community problem, not one of enforcement; as downtown becomes more active, more
complaints will be generated.
Jerry Ogburn, Downtown Director, good public comments; got two groups, both want to work
together; hopefully a compromise will result; have finally hit the right combination for the downtown;
not a easy problem at this point; compliance is by downtown, but noise still bothers residents; need to
come together to solve problem, may not come up with a perfect answer, but one that could be
tolerated by both parties.
Reller-Spurgin, any reading on Patencio? What times were readings taken.
Planning Director, Linda Vista, Peshew residence, located just west of Patencio; only thing heard
further west was residential music; midnight to 2 am; quiet in neighborhood at that time, doesn’t mean
noise is louder, but that everything else is quiet.
Reller-Spurgin, block too saturated with noise downtown; many businesses playing music.
Hodges: what was last weekends readings?
Planning Director around 70 in compliance.
Hodges: not a sound expert; willing to be in group to come together to try to solve the issue;
important to work with the residents and the downtown merchants and hoteliers; need to maintain a
quality of life, and have downtown be successful.
Reller-Spurgin volunteer to serve on committee with Hodges.
Barnes, live off Ramon, not used to certain sounds, when something is added it can be annoying;
complicated issue; hope good compromise can be found.
Mayor, glad the downtown is not the same as 15 years ago; need to continue to head City is upward
direction; downtown is festival retail; when success comes, so does problems; can not have a quiet
town and have business; reality is noise is irritating; same with living around airport, or when
ambulance comes by; seems to be a spirit of compromise and willingness to work together; hope
everyone can sit at the same table and work the problems out; alot of positive things are working
downtown, need to keep moving forward. Suggest Mr. Baron, Reller-Spurgin, Hodges, Planning
Director and representatives of both side get together.
Consensus, committee will meet, Tuesday 2/2/99, location and time to be determined.
ADJOURN at 10:30 p.m.